the reality is, an agreement that has taxes in, spending cuts, but also the debt ceiling would not be a negotiation. >> and jennifer, what's interesting, i keep hearing from republican leadership. they would love to actually, they don't want, the debt limit is not where they want to have this focus. they want it on the government shutdown, the continuing resolution, but they don't know how to get their members to see it the way they see it. >> that's right. a long time ago in the ages of 2011, they thought that using the debt ceiling was a great idea and got them great leverage. they have climbed up the mountain and rig down the mountain so many times with this president. >> climbed down the mountain. i think it was a -- >> good point. talk about a cliff. but, you're right. they don't really want to play that game. they don't want to be accused of not paying the country's bill, but how do thaw use that leverage in order to finally get to cuts, which the president said will be coming, but never seems to come in their lives. >> back to the white house here, boy, the markets would love t